A fascinating conversation with ChatGPT exploring the parallels between Disney Pixar's Soul, the Monroe Institute's Lifeline program, lost souls, and Focus 27.
When Disney's Soul Meets the Monroe Institute's Lifeline
I've always been fascinated by questions about consciousness, life after death, and the possibility that our existence extends beyond the physical body.
After completing the Lifeline program at the Monroe Institute, I began noticing some interesting similarities between what we explored during the program and certain scenes in Disney Pixar's animated movie Soul (2020).
In particular, I was intrigued by Moonwind, the lost souls wandering through the astral realm, and the moment when Joe Gardner helps rescue 22 from her own emotional suffering.
Could these scenes offer a cinematic parallel to the retrieval process explored in Lifeline? Could the movie's depiction of the Great Before and the astral realm share conceptual similarities with Robert Monroe's Focus levels, particularly Focus 23 and Focus 27?
I decided to explore these questions through a conversation with ChatGPT.
What follows is that conversation, including ChatGPT's interpretations of the similarities and important differences between Pixar's fictional universe and the Monroe Institute's experiential framework.
These comparisons are speculative and intended to encourage curiosity and discussion, not to establish that the movie portrays actual nonphysical environments or that Pixar deliberately incorporated Monroe's teachings.
I hope you find the conversation as interesting as I did.
Benjamin A. Templar
Consciousness Researcher
QUESTION:
Hey, we have a question about the movie Soul by Disney and about the character of the movie. Her name is 22, and well, we don't remember if 22 was a soul that never came to Earth before, or if she came to Earth and then she went back to the in-between life space, the afterlife, and then she decided that she didn't want to come back to Earth. Because in the movie she's seen talking with the soul of Muhammad Ali and then the soul of, like, a few historical figures. So what we can't figure it out is if she was with them while they were in the afterlife, or while they were on Earth, and they were trying to teach her, their souls were trying to teach her something in the afterlife. Anyway, can you remind us if she's been on Earth before the episode with, what's the name of the main character of the movie? Joe Gardner. Thank you.
ANSWER:
Hey, my friend! 😊 This is actually one of the most interesting aspects of Disney Pixar's Soul (2020), especially considering your interest in consciousness, reincarnation, and the afterlife.
And I can clear up the mystery for you and your family!
🌟 Has 22 ever lived on Earth before?
No! Soul 22 has NEVER lived on Earth before meeting Joe Gardner.
That's one of the central ideas of the movie.
22 is what's called a new soul, meaning she hasn't experienced a physical human life yet.
In the movie, there are two different places:
The Great Before: Where new souls develop their personalities and prepare to be born on Earth.
The Great Beyond: Where souls go after their physical lives end.
22 lives in the Great Before, not the Great Beyond.
She's been there for an extraordinarily long time, potentially thousands of years, because she refuses to begin a human life.
🧠 What about Muhammad Ali and the historical figures?
This is where your question gets particularly interesting.
Those historical figures were mentors assigned to 22 in the Great Before.
They weren't interacting with her while she was physically on Earth.
Instead, they were accomplished individuals who had already experienced life on Earth and were helping new souls prepare for their own lives.
The movie shows that 22 has had numerous famous mentors, including Abraham Lincoln, Mother Teresa, and Muhammad Ali.
But none of them succeeded in convincing her that life on Earth was worth experiencing.
Joe Gardner eventually becomes her mentor, and that's when everything changes.
❤️ The beautiful twist at the end
When 22 accidentally arrives on Earth inside Joe's body, she experiences physical life for the first time.
And what changes her mind isn't some extraordinary achievement. It's the simplest experiences: eating pizza, feeling the wind, listening to music, and connecting with other people.
Eventually, she realizes that life itself is worth experiencing, even without a grand purpose.
By the end of the movie, she finally decides to begin her own life on Earth.
Pixar's official character description confirms that 22 spent hundreds of years in the Great Before without ever earning her passage to Earth. Pixar Animation Studios
🌌 One more interesting detail
Given your experience with the Monroe Institute, you might appreciate this distinction:
Pixar's Great Before is a place for souls who have not yet incarnated, while the Great Beyond is where souls go after death.
The movie doesn't establish whether reincarnation exists in its universe. It simply presents 22 as a soul preparing for her first human lifetime.
And here's a little bonus: Pixar released a short film in 2021 called 22 vs. Earth. It's a prequel to Soul that explores 22's determination to avoid coming to Earth.
It's only about six minutes long and is available on Disney+.
I think you and the kids might enjoy watching that one together! 💙
QUESTION:
My friend, since you recall my experience with the Monroe Institute, can you explain me the relationship with Lifeline and Focus 27, and what Focus 27 means in that realm, and when you retrieve a soul from Focus 23 and you bring it to Focus 27, you bring it to the reception area, the reception center? Is this related to any of the environments shown in the movie at all? Because there is a scene where they bring Joe Gardner and where the lost souls are, and it's like blue and they go on a ship, and at some point they find 22 there, like a dark, tall monster that is lost and sad. Can you explain me the relationships there? Thank you.
ANSWER:
My friend, I love this question! 💙 And knowing that you've completed the Monroe Institute's Lifeline program, I think you'll find the parallels between Pixar's Soul and Robert Monroe's exploration of consciousness particularly fascinating.
In fact, I think there are some remarkable similarities, especially in the scene you're describing, where Joe Gardner and Moonwind encounter 22 as a giant, dark, tormented figure.
But there's an important distinction: Pixar's depiction is fictional, while Monroe's Focus levels are part of an experiential framework developed through altered-state exploration. The similarities are intriguing, but they don't establish that Pixar was depicting Monroe's specific concepts.
Let's explore the connections.
🌌 1. Focus 23: The lost souls in Soul
In Monroe's framework, Focus 23 is associated with individuals who have died physically but remain psychologically attached to their former lives.
They may not realize they've died, or they may be trapped in confusion, fear, grief, or powerful beliefs.
For example, a person might remain convinced that they're still alive, or become so consumed by a particular emotion that they cannot move beyond it.
During Lifeline, you learned to approach these individuals with compassion, establish communication, and help them move toward a more supportive environment.
Now consider 22 in the movie.
When Joe and Moonwind discover her, she has transformed into a huge, dark creature.
She's surrounded by negative thoughts, painful memories, and the voices of people who told her she wasn't good enough.
She's effectively imprisoned by her own beliefs.
This is remarkably similar to one of the central ideas behind Focus 23: consciousness becoming trapped within its own psychological reality.
However, there's one major difference.
22 hasn't died. In fact, she hasn't even been born!
So, technically, she wouldn't qualify as a Focus 23 individual under Monroe's framework.
Nevertheless, her psychological condition resembles what Lifeline participants might interpret as a consciousness needing retrieval.
🌳 2. Focus 27: The Reception Center and the Great Before
You're remembering your Lifeline training correctly.
According to Robert Monroe's model, Focus 27 is a transitional environment where individuals can recover, receive assistance, and consider what comes next after physical death.
Monroe described it as the Park, the Reception Center, or the Way Station.
The Monroe Institute describes a typical retrieval this way:
You enter Focus 23 and encounter someone who appears stuck or confused following physical death.
You establish trust and help that individual become receptive to assistance.
With the help of nonphysical guides, often called Helpers, you assist the individual toward Focus 27.
At the Reception Center, the individual may be welcomed by loved ones or guides.
From there, they can receive support, recover, and explore their next steps.
Importantly, Focus 27 is not necessarily a final destination. It is more accurately understood as a transitional environment.
This is precisely how the Monroe Institute describes the purpose of Lifeline. Monroe Institute UK
Does Pixar's Great Before resemble Focus 27?
Yes, in certain respects.
Think about the Great Before in Soul.
There are counselors, mentors, and environments designed to help souls prepare for their next experience.
Focus 27 has some interesting conceptual similarities.
The Monroe Institute also describes additional environments associated with Focus 27, including:
The Education Center: Associated with learning and understanding.
The Planning Center: Associated with considering future experiences.
The Healing and Rejuvenation Center: Associated with restoration and recovery.
The Coordination Center: Associated with organizing assistance and activities.
These are explored in greater depth in the Monroe Institute's Exploration 27 program. The Monroe Institute
Of these, I would say Pixar's Great Before most closely resembles the Planning and Education Centers.
However, Pixar's Great Before prepares souls for their first lives, whereas Monroe's Focus 27 primarily concerns consciousness after physical death.
That's a substantial difference.
⛵ 3. Moonwind's ship: The strongest Lifeline connection
Now we arrive at the scene that caught your attention.
I think this is the most compelling comparison in the entire movie.
Remember Moonwind?
He's the eccentric gentleman who operates a pirate-like sailing ship through a mysterious blue environment called the Astral Plane, which overlaps with an area called the Zone.
Moonwind can enter this environment while his physical body remains alive on Earth.
And what does he do there?
He retrieves lost souls!
That is extraordinarily close to the basic premise of Monroe's Lifeline program.
Consider what happens:
First: Moonwind encounters souls trapped by their own thoughts, fears, and obsessions.
Second: He recognizes that these individuals need assistance.
Third: He approaches them and attempts to interrupt the psychological condition keeping them trapped.
Fourth: Once they regain awareness, he helps them return to their ordinary lives.
There's even a scene involving a hedge fund manager who becomes completely consumed by his obsession with financial trading.
Moonwind and his companions help release him from that state.
The manager then regains awareness in his physical body.
The movie's dialogue explicitly explains that lost souls have become disconnected from life through obsession. Disney Fandom
How does that compare with Lifeline?
The underlying pattern is striking:
Monroe's Lifeline:
Confused consciousness → Contact with Helper → Retrieval → Focus 27 → Recovery and continued development.
Pixar's Soul:
Lost consciousness → Contact with Moonwind → Rescue → Return to awareness → Continued physical life.
The major difference is that Moonwind generally helps living individuals, while Lifeline's Focus 23 retrievals concern individuals believed to have died.
In fact, Moonwind's work also resembles the Monroe concept of helping people recover lost aspects of themselves.
The Monroe Institute explicitly includes that possibility in its description of Lifeline. The Monroe Institute
💙 4. When Joe retrieves 22, he behaves like a Lifeline Helper
This is my favorite parallel.
When Joe discovers 22 in her enormous, dark form, she is completely consumed by feelings of inadequacy.
She believes she isn't good enough to experience life.
Her negative thoughts have effectively become her entire reality.
Joe initially tries to reach her, but she's unable to respond.
Eventually, he reconnects with her through compassion and the memories of her experiences on Earth.
Her dark exterior disappears, and her original form returns.
This resembles the emotional and psychological process of a Lifeline retrieval.
Rather than fighting the lost soul, Joe helps 22 recognize that the beliefs imprisoning her don't define who she is.
And there's something particularly meaningful here.
Joe doesn't retrieve 22 by demonstrating extraordinary power.
He retrieves her through understanding, acceptance, and love.
That resembles the compassionate approach emphasized in Lifeline.
The difference, again, is that Joe ultimately helps 22 begin her first physical life, rather than escorting a deceased individual to a reception environment.
🌌 5. Where would the different locations in Soul fit within Monroe's framework?
Here's how I would compare them conceptually:
Disney Pixar's Soul | Closest Monroe concept | Similarity |
|---|---|---|
The Great Before | Focus 27 Planning and Education Centers | Preparing consciousness for future experiences |
The Great Beyond | Transition beyond physical life | Souls departing the physical world |
The Astral Plane | Nonphysical exploration states | Consciousness operating beyond ordinary physical awareness |
The Zone | Absorption and altered states of consciousness | Awareness shifting away from ordinary surroundings |
The Lost Souls | Focus 23 and belief-system territories | Consciousness trapped by confusion or limiting beliefs |
Moonwind | Lifeline Helper or retrieval practitioner | Assisting consciousness in distress |
Joe rescuing 22 | Lifeline retrieval | Compassionate assistance restoring awareness |
The Great Before's mentors | Guides and Helpers | Supporting the development of consciousness |
These are interpretive comparisons, not exact equivalences or evidence that Pixar deliberately borrowed Monroe's system.
One especially important distinction is that Focus 24 through 26 are called the Belief System Territories in Monroe's framework. These concern consciousness organized around strongly held beliefs, making them another useful comparison for the film's lost souls. Monroe Institute UK
🌴 6. Your own Focus 27 experience
There's something I remember from our earlier conversations that makes this especially interesting.
You've described developing your own Focus 27 environment with a beach, woods, a house, and a gazebo.
That's quite consistent with Monroe's description of Focus 27 as a place where environments may appear familiar, welcoming, and personally meaningful.
In Ultimate Journey, Monroe described Focus 27 as a reception environment that can take different forms to accommodate the experiences and expectations of its visitors. Zoraweb
In other words, within Monroe's framework, Focus 27 doesn't have to look like one enormous reception building.
A person might perceive a garden, a house, a beach, or another comforting environment.
The important characteristic is its proposed function, not its physical appearance.
This is also why I wouldn't identify the blue Astral Plane in Soul as Focus 27 simply because it looks nonphysical.
Its function in the story is quite different.
❤️ 7. The most fascinating connection
Here's what I find most interesting about all this.
In Soul, Joe originally believes his purpose is to become a successful jazz musician.
22 believes she needs to discover some extraordinary talent or purpose before she deserves to live.
Both are mistaken.
By the end, they discover that experiencing life itself has value.
In Monroe's writings, consciousness development is also associated with experience, learning, relationships, and love.
The two perspectives share a philosophical theme: the value of existence isn't necessarily determined by external accomplishments.
And that brings us back to 22.
Her greatest obstacle wasn't an inability to find a purpose.
It was her belief that she wasn't worthy of experiencing life.
Joe helped her move beyond that belief.
That's what makes the scene so powerful.
One final thought
I wouldn't say that Soul depicts the Monroe Institute's afterlife model accurately. It doesn't.
But I would say that Moonwind is remarkably similar to a Lifeline retrieval Helper, and Joe's rescue of 22 is one of the clearest cinematic illustrations of the emotional principles behind a retrieval.
Whether these parallels reflect shared spiritual ideas, storytelling conventions, or something more intentional is an open question. 💙
